John Thiel mp3
Daniel 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
Daniel 11:2 And now will I shew thee the truth.
Who is the king of the north? This message I’m about to share with you, comes as a consequence of the message I shared last week. Whether Daniel 11 was salvational or not. We beheld how Jesus our saviour was totally involved in the vision of Daniel 11.
We saw that Jesus was engaged in world politics. We saw that as we come to Daniel 11:45, the next event is the close of probation.
Jesus had warned the believers who study the Bible that this day of the coming of Jesus of the close of probation will take them as a thief. He warned them. The scripture that was directly associated with the drying up, or the king of the north coming to his end and none shall help him which is directly equal to Revelation 16; the drying up of the river Euphrates. When that takes place, Revelation 16:15 is inserted.
Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
What was a comment by a listener to last weeks sermon who expressed this. If this is a salvational issue it would be wise to thoroughly study it and have the correct understanding of it. Because of such a realistic expression by this person, we will spend this hour to apply ourselves to the study of it thoroughly so that we come to a correct understanding.
To come to a correct understanding of any subject in the Bible, it is essential to use Bible principles to ascertain what is absolute truth. We are surrounded today with theological arguments that do not follow the Bible principle of ascertaining any subject in truth. If we come to the Bible principles that is expressed in 2 Peter 1, we see a very important call upon the student of the Bible and especially of prophecy:
2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
He has just expressed how important it is that we are clearly able to see the light of prophecy which is more sure than any other persons testimony.
2 Peter 1: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
When it comes to the subject of Daniel 11 and the king of the north, we have many interpretations today. But the Bible is explicit, the principle we must follow is that we do not place any private interpretation upon the prophecy.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
The subject that we are studying here is a destructive subject prophecy. if people are under a false teaching, they will bring upon themselves swift destruction. No private interpretation: therefore how are we to read the Bible so that we don’t come up with a false interpretation or our own private interpretation. Don’t interpret the Bible.
Isaiah 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
Read, don’t interpret. That’s an important principle. Seek the words out the book of the Lord and read. It reads as it reads, it will not need any explanation. It will read as it reads. Very emphatically does the book of Proverbs 30:5,6 lay this point upon our appreciation.
Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
The 144,000 have no guile in their mouth. They are not liars. They will present the pure truth, the pure word, without private interpretation. They will not be found a liar because they take the pure word and add nothing to it and take nothing from it. These are imperative principles if we are going to come to the knowledge of the truth and especially on this subject of the king of the north.
The language of the Bible should be explained according to its obvious meaning, unless a symbol or figure is employed. Christ has given the promise: “If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine.” John 7:17. If men would but take the Bible as it reads, if there were no false teachers to mislead and confuse their minds, a work would be accomplished that would make angels glad and that would bring into the fold of Christ thousands upon thousands who are now wandering in error. GC 598.3
What a profound statement. So obvious meaning unless a figure is employed. The problem is what the people do with the Bible.
Jesus knew that He could do the scribes and Pharisees no good, unless they would empty themselves of self-importance. It was His design that His disciples should take the plain, unadulterated truth for the guide of their life. They were not to add to His words, or give a forced meaning to His utterances. They were not to put a mystical interpretation upon the plain teaching of the Scriptures, and draw from theological stores to build up some man-made theory. 5BC 1089.1
No private interpretation. No man-made theory.
It was through putting a mystical meaning upon the plain words of God, that sacred and vital truths were made of little significance, while the theories of men were made prominent. It was in this way that men were led to teach for doctrines the commandments of men, and that they rejected the commandment of God, that they might keep their own tradition (The Review and Herald, June 2, 1896). 5BC 1089.1
This is no different today as it was in the time of Christ. The theologians, the doctors of theology through the true reading of the Bible, what did it say? They placed a mystical interpretation on the plain words as they are written there.
The Bible must be explained according to it’s obvious meaning unless a symbol or figure is employed. Let us proceed to use these Bible principles and apply them in the reading of Daniel 11 to read it’s obvious meaning. The vision of Daniel 11 commences in chapter 10. That’s where the whole vision of Daniel 11 covers Daniel 10 through to Daniel 12. It’s all one vision. We go there and follow carefully the addressing by the angel to Daniel. He is addressing Daniel and he is Daniel was in the plight as all through his experience of the visions that he had, some of the visions were symbolic. The image of Daniel 2, the beasts of Daniel 7 and the ram and he goat of Daniel 8. They were explained to Daniel. As he comes to Daniel 11, to this other vision, he was still trying to work his way through all the meanings and he was troubled. He was yearning for guidance. That is when Daniel 10, the angel Gabriele comes to him.
Daniel 10:11 And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling. 12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
What was Daniels problem? He was asking God for illumination/clarification. The angel is coming to him and notice what he expresses in verse 14:
Daniel 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
The language of the angel says I’m coming here to help you understand. To give you understanding.
Daniel 10: 21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
He has come now to show Daniel what the scriptures of truth are saying. Notice the angel is coming to explain and to reveal what the scriptures are saying.
Daniel 11:2 And now will I shew thee the truth.
Notice the angel came to explain the truth in Daniel 11. To remove any questions in reference to these symbolisms of the prophecies in the past. To unravel any symbolic confusions of the past visions. That’s what he said, and now I will show thee the truth. In Daniel 7 those symbolic images were given, they had to be explained by the angel. Notice his language.
Daniel 7:15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. 17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
Did you notice the angel turns around and says to him, I’m going to show you the truth. Like he said to Daniel in Daniel 11. I’m going to show you the truth. It’s not a symbol, it’s the truth. As in Daniel 7, I will show you the truth of what the symbols mean.
Daniel 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. 17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. 18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. 19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
The vision of the symbols when they were to be explained as to what they meant, the angel repeated this many times over. I’m going to show you the truth and understanding to unravel the symbol to the reality.
Daniel 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. 22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
I’m going to show you the truth. The previous visions of Daniel 11 needed explanation still. Daniel was still in perplexity. He comes to the experience of Daniel 11 and there the angel is explaining fully unobscured explanation. Nothing obscure by any symbolic thing. It was a plain description without using symbols. That’s what we are observing. Notice carefully What Daniel chapter 10 said:
Daniel 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
Indeed, the vision Daniel 11 is a lengthy description over many days. A very lengthy account of detailed historic events that were explained to Daniel in this vision. They were detailed events from the time in which Daniel was living and the unfolding of the history of these detailed events to show what will befall thy people in the latter days. This is all very important preamble before we get down into it. Let’s see what he said to Daniel plain language, no symbolism. What does he say?
Daniel 11:2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. 3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. 4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.
There is the beginning of the vision. There is the experience of Daniel as he was in the kingdom of Persia and the angel says to him, just without any symbolism, I’m here to show you what will happen from here onwards. The kings of Persia will continue from Cyrus, four more kings and especially that one king who will stir up Grecia. He went with all his power and might. We can go into the historic detail of this king Xerxes who was a great wealthy king and over 5 million men were in his army. He stirred up Greece and Greece started to get really angry. He failed to conquer but he stirred Grecia up.
Then came a king who will stand up, Alexander the Great who conquered the empire of Persia, as he comes to his final conquering a debauchery of drunkenness. He dies and in his place arise four generals who take over his kingdom. It is impossible for me to engage with you in this short hour to go through the entire detail of the many days of history that were described in Daniel 11. You want to do this and examine closely, all you need to do is go through the book Daniel and the Revelation by Uriah Smith and you will get all the detail. The important thing I’ve done is to show as we’ve done in our study is to read as it reads and not to put any symbolism as unless a symbol is used, it is to be taken as it reads. There are no symbols that are used in the chapter of Daniel 11. It is all as it is explained by the angel to him.
Here is a summary from the Spirit of Prophecy that gives us a very clear appreciation of what we are studying when we are studying the book of Daniel. The description of the history of Daniel 11, we look back to now was a prophecy for Daniel.
Caiaphas was the one that was to be in office when types and shadows were to meet the reality, when the true High Priest was to come into office. Each actor in history stands in his lot and place; for God’s great work after His own plan will be carried out by men who have prepared themselves to fill positions for good or evil. In opposition to righteousness, men become instruments of unrighteousness. But their course of action is unforced. They need not have become instruments of unrighteousness any more than need Cain. God said to him, “If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door” [Genesis 4:7]. Cain would not hear the voice of God, and as a result, he killed his brother. 12MR 390.2
Men of all characters, righteous and unrighteous, will stand in their positions. With the characters they have formed, they will act their part in the fulfillment of history. In a crisis, just at the right moment, men will stand in the places they have prepared themselves to fill. Believers and unbelievers will fall into line as witnesses, to confirm truth which they do not themselves comprehend. All will cooperate in accomplishing the purposes of God, as did Annas, Caiaphas, Pilate, and Herod. 12MR 390.3
That’s the vision of Daniel 11. Every person comes in by their own choices in their conflict with the battles between empires and they all fill their place as actors. As you study Daniel 11, you see the actors fulfilling their roles. I found it so fascinating to see that Jesus orchestrating human beings as he did also Annas and Caiaphas and all those. It was by the fact that he came to earth and lived here that he orchestrated human reactions. That’s what he did all through Daniel 11. It’s a fascinating study. As we come through the history as each person fulfils his place in the history of the prophecy, as an actor in the whole drama we read::
The world is stirred with the spirit of war. The prophecies of the eleventh of Daniel have almost reached their final fulfillment.—The Review and Herald, November 24, 1904. WM 136.5
The pioneers of Adventism understood Daniel 11 very well and knew what Sr White was writing and it was in harmony with what they were teaching. The book of Daniel, the history unconfused by symbolisms was being unfolded and cleared.
We examine the beginning of the vision and the explanation so we can verify the end of the vision. To ascertain the king of the north and the king of the south, we look at the beginning of the vision. We will arrive at the correct conclusion as to what the king of the north is and what the king of the south is at the beginning of the vision. After Persia and the other kings, Cyrus and the stirring up of the Grecia king, a mighty king
Daniel 11:3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. 4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those. 5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion. 6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king’s daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.
Then it goes on and on. You have to study history to see how it all unfolded but here you can see that Alexander the great died and his kingdom was separated according to Daniel 8. See what happened to the kingdom of Alexander when he died.
The He Goat of Daniel 8 is Grecia
This was explained by the angel. Here is a plain explanation of the symbol of Grecia.
Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. 20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. 23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Here we see what happened to Grecia when Alexander died when who took over the four generals? The four winds. The four generals that arose after Alexander was killed, after they had conflict amongst themselves.
Seleucus
Ptolemy
Lysimachus
Cassander
As the story goes on as all that you see in Daniel 11, is that it talks about the king of the north and south. Seleucus took the eastern side, Ptolemy took Egypt and Cassander and Lysimachus took further west that was where it was distributed. But among these generals, there was war and ultimately Cassander and Lysimachus were conquered by Seleucus and Ptolemy continued to keep his territory in Egypt. That ended up with the king of the north and the king of the south. Seleucus took over the entire Asia Minor area and Egypt was kept by Ptolemy; annexed part of Egypt to himself. Then is the description of these two kings that goes on and from this point onwards, the angel Gabriele unfolds the history of the nations associated with north and south. North and south of where? Where was Daniel’s place? Daniels place was Palestine and everything to do with Daniel and his people. Remember it says I will show you everything that will take place among your people in the latter days. It is the people who have got their place in Palestine that the kings of the north and south are being shown and related to.
It is the territory that was split among the generals of Alexander, the territory. This is as the Bible reads. North and South of Palestine. No interpretation, no symbolism. The reality was the king of the was Seleucus who took over Cassander and Lysimachus terrain and that was north of Palestine and Egypt and the annexed areas were under Ptolemy, the king of the south. That is south from Palestine. That was the territory. No symbols, territory. All literal Bible reading as the angel explained it. I will let Daniel and Revelation the writings by Uriah Smith here do the work for me to help us understand what we conclude as we travel through the history that is depicted through Daniel 11.
During the wars and revolutions which for long ages succeeded, these geographical boundaries were frequently changed or obliterated; old ones were wiped out, and new ones instituted. But whatever changes might occur, these first divisions of the empire must determine the names which these portions of territory should ever afterward bear, or we have no standard by which to test the application of the prophecy; DAR 224.3
Do you see the vivid clear mentality to be exercised? What standard are we going to use to interpret the rest of the description by the angel to Daniel? There is no other standard but the geographical territory that is being applied to. No symbolism. Geographical territory. North and South.
…whatever power at any time should occupy the territory which at first constituted the kingdom of the north, that power, so long as it occupied that territory, would be the king of the north; and whatever power should occupy that which at first constituted the kingdom of the south, that power would so long be the king of the south. We speak of only these two, because they are the only ones afterward spoken of in the prophecy, and because, in fact, almost the whole of Alexander’s empire finally resolved itself into these two divisions. DAR 224.3
That’s the explanation that we are to take from the angel. North and South; territory. No symbolism. The people that rule the north is the king of the north. The people that rule the south is the king of the south. Without long detailed coverage, we arrive at Daniel 11:40. He is described all through the history we don’t have time to pursue. Daniel 11:40 is what Sr White says we are now so close to the end of that being fulfilled.
Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
All true Bible students of prophecy know the date of the time of the end. Do you know what that is? What’s the time of the end? What’s the date? 1798. What happened in 1798 by the French? The Pope was taken prisoner in February 1798 by under General Berthier who was a general under Napoleon. At the time of the end, shall the king of the south push at him and the king of the south shall come against him. Who is that? It’s verses 36 onwards which is France. What did France do? It was trying to develop it’s own empire and there was war between the French and the English as we know from history. France sent it’s foreign legion to Egypt. They were fascinated with Egypt. Egypt is the king of the south. What happened? Napoleon took his army down to Egypt to deal with it, conquer it, to occupy it. What does the king of the south do? He pushes against him at the time of the end – 1798. There was the day. As Egypt pushed against the French, the king of the north which was the people who ruled at that time, was Turkey. It was Turkey that in all reality came and pushed against the French. As the story goes, the French were routed by Turkey and Egypt being a weak place, they were helped by the king of the north and the French were ousted from that territory. That was a fulfilment of prophecy to identify who the king of the north and south was at that time. Turkey and Egypt. As you read there, from verses 40 onwards, it’s talking about the King of the north at the time of the end, the king of the comes against him with great power.
Daniel 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
It goes into the detail of Turkey conquering France or Turkey chasing them out of Egypt.
Daniel 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
The king of the north was dealing with Egypt conquering it.
Daniel 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. 44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
This is where the war from Russia and England came down upon Turkey. This is all the territory explained. The king of the north explained from Turkey what he was going through.
Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
Did you pick up in 1798, the papacy was taken captive wasn’t it? The history continues here. Can the papacy be the king of the north according to this? Can it be possible. According to this description, the pope was taken prisoner and his power was removed. The deadly wound was imposed upon the papacy. In the time of the king of the north and south, in the time of the last days, the pope was defrocked. Can the king of the north be the papacy? It doesn’t make any sense. That is what we are hearing people say, the king of the north is the papacy. We come to the point where he comes and put’s his tabernacles of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain. At that time Michael shall stand up. Here is the beginning of the close of probation when the king of the north sets up the tabernacle of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain. This is where in Jerusalem they want to put their caliphate. This is what Turkey is doing at this very time.
Turkey looked like an insignificant nation back then but is it significant in world affairs right now? What is President Erdogan doing? He is gathering all the Muslim of all the Muslim states together. He has full control over Turkey as a virtual dictator. He has this position until 2029. His plan now is to get a summit of the Muslim world and establish armies of the Muslim world to re-establish the Ottoman empire. They want to do is put their Caliphate into Jerusalem. If you were to look up caliphate, you can read what their plan is, the Muslim world. To put their caliphate into Jerusalem. That’s what’s written in Daniel 11:45.
Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
When that happens, probation will close. Michael will stand up and finish with the judgement hour. We have emphasised that it is Turkey and not the papacy. Can you detect whether it’s possible that it could be the papacy? When does the papacy come to it’s end? When does the king of the north come to his end? It says he shall come to his end and none shall help him and Michael stands up and probation will close.
Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was
At that time he will come to his end. When does the papacy come to it’s end?
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
How does the papacy come to his end? The king of the north comes to his end at the time when Jesus finishes his ministerial work but the papacy comes to his end at the brightness of his coming. Totally different scene. It can’t be the papacy. It’s impossible.
“I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.” Verse 3. The infliction of the deadly wound points to the downfall of the papacy in 1798. After this, says the prophet, “his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.” Paul states plainly that the “man of sin” will continue until the second advent. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8. To the very close of time he will carry forward the work of deception. GC 578.3
The papacy will continue to the close of time. Not at the time when Jesus stands up but at the very end when he comes.
The mystery of iniquity, which had already begun to work in Paul’s day, will continue its work until it be taken out of the way at our Lord’s second coming. ST June 12, 1893, par. 12
Whoever teaches the symbolism that the king of the north is symbolic of the papacy, they have put symbolism into plain language. They have added their interpretation. This is the way the truth unfolds. For our salvation we need to know the event before Jesus comes in the clouds. We need to know the lead up, the looming of the close of probation so we know what we need to learn to be sure that we will not be caught as per Revelation 16:15 because when he comes to his end and none shall help him, the river Euphrates dries up. It says behold I come as a thief and you better be dressed. If we do not know the realities of what is transpiring before the close of probation, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth by those preachers and teachers who are not giving meat in due season. That’s Matthew 24:44-45. The servant says in his heart my Lord delays His coming and eats and drinks with the drunken. The Lord will come upon him when he’s not looking for him. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. If we have the plain descriptions of Daniel 11 before us, we can see what is happening in front of us and we know what we must do. What must we do? Revelation 16:15 – be not caught naked and the shame of thy nakedness not appear. What does it mean? What does Revelation 3:18 say?
Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
This is the message for us at this present time as we see what Turkey the King of the North is doing. We need to do what? We need to buy of Him white raiment that we will not be caught naked when he comes to his end and none shall help him. See our next study – How not to walk naked when probation closes.
May God help us to recognise what the bible is saying without private interpretation. Just as it reads we will be secure if we will do that.
