By John Thiel, mp3

Scripture Reading: Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

The messages that come from this pulpit are broadcast on the internet and it is my intention at this time to deliberately address the wider congregation together with those seated before me. Every sermon I have preached in the past has come from a deep reliance on God’s inspiration and a rendition of His written word, yet via an imperfect instrument of earthen clay.

2 Corinthians 4: 5For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

2 Corinthians 2: 16To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things? 17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Because of this the inspiration from God within is difficult to express by imperfect human language. Consequently these imperfect expressions have been taken and made capital of. The thing that has really affected my heart as I see what has been put on the internet in regards to the messages that have come from these lips of clay, is that God’s holy cause has been marred. I have examined myself very closely to see what I need to do to alleviate where God’s cause has been marred. If any of us here and those who are listening to this message have been negatively affected by myself, I pray to God that this hour, this time, our hearts may be alleviated from those questionable expressions.

Ambassadors for Christ

The calling of a minister is of awful magnitude. A minister who is called of God is not and does not desire to be anything than just a simple instrument. We see the apostle, the preacher, refers to his preaching position.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

The apostle Paul is writing to the church, the church at Corinth. He is saying we are ambassadors for Christ that we beseech you in Christ’s stead. The preacher is according to this Scripture, in Christ’s stead.

To reject the Lord’s servants is to reject Christ Himself. {DA 489.1}

Those serious applications cause me to tremble.

The minister stands as God’s mouthpiece to the people, and in thought, in word, in act, he is to represent his Lord. When Moses was chosen as the messenger of the covenant, the word given him was, “Be thou for the people to Godward.” [Exodus 18:19.] Today God chooses men as He chose Moses, to be His messengers, and heavy is the woe resting on the one who dishonors his holy calling, or lowers the standard set for him in the life and labors of the Son of God. {GW 20.1}

Today God chooses men as He chose Moses. Those who stand as ministers in the pulpit are in a great woe if they dishonour God’s holy name. What does Apostle Paul say? Who is sufficient for these things? Doesn’t this make any person standing in this pulpit or any person who is called of God especially to be a minister, an awe filling serious reality? To look for an object lesson in the Scriptures of such a situation we turn to Isaiah. Isaiah was called by God to be a mouthpiece in His stead. He commences with viewing the throne of God. As he views the throne of God, God’s glory and the angels crying holy, holy, holy in verse 3, and in verse 5 Isaiah is so impacted because he saw God’s holiness he said:

Isaiah 6: 5 Then said I, Woe [is] me! for I am undone; because I [am] a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. 6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, [which] he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7 And he laid [it] upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Any one whom God calls to be His servant is here given for a consideration. It is very interesting what Sr White writes in reference to this:

As the prophet Isaiah beheld glory of the Lord, he was amazed, and, overwhelmed with a sense of his own weakness and unworthiness, he cried, “Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of Hosts.” {4BC 1138.6}

Isaiah had denounced the sin of others; {4BC 1139.1}

He had already been verbal in identifying sins and as it says, for us in the last days, cry aloud, spare not, show my people their iniquities and their transgressions.

Isaiah had denounced the sin of others; but now he sees himself exposed to the same condemnation he had pronounced upon them. He had been satisfied with a cold, lifeless ceremony in his worship of God. He had not known this until the vision was given him of the Lord. {4BC 1139.1}

We worship God and we don’t even know unless we see Him that we are entering into ceremony and into worship procedures which we think we are serving God with,. but it says he had not known. So many of us don’t know until the vision of the Lord is revealed to them.

How little now appeared his wisdom and talents as he looked upon the sacredness and majesty of the sanctuary. How unworthy he was! how unfitted for sacred service! His view of himself might be expressed in the language of the apostle Paul, “O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” {4BC 1139.1}

But relief was sent to Isaiah in his distress. [Isaiah 6:6, 7 quoted.] {4BC 1139.2}

The vision given to Isaiah represents the condition of God’s people in the last days. They are privileged to see by faith the work that is going forward in the heavenly sanctuary. “And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament.” As they look by faith into the holy of holies, and see the work of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary, they perceive that they are a people of unclean lips,–a people whose lips have often spoken vanity, and whose talents have not been sanctified and employed to the glory of God. Well may they despair as they contrast their own weakness and unworthiness with the purity and loveliness of the glorious character of Christ. But if they, like Isaiah, will receive the impression the Lord designs shall be made upon the heart, if they will humble their souls before God, there is hope for them. The bow of promise is above the throne, and the work done for Isaiah will be performed in them. God will respond to the petitions coming from the contrite heart (RH Dec. 22, 1896). {4BC 1139.3}

That is how the revelation of God before those who are conscientiously viewing the message for these last days and the revelation of God’s amazing work are overwhelmed with their condition as Isaiah was. The Lord sent Isaiah and these people to go and do the work that He commissions them to do. It is this picture that has ever influenced me. It is this kind of counsel that has ever placed a serious awe upon my being. Right now, at the very end where we live, I believe that we are in the direst circumstances in comparison even with the time of Sr White.

Our Insubordinate Natures

We are surrounded by an experience that is testified of in 2 Timothy. I don’t want to spend much in enlarging this apart from drawing this to our attention to help us appreciate where we are situated, where I am situated in my early youth onwards.

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

When I read these statements very early in my experience I never realised what an insubordinate child I actually was. I thought this applied to everybody else just like Isaiah. As time proceeded from the time of my early youth through to the discovery of the reformation message, I slowly woke up to the realisation that every one of us from that time and even before, (and I will read a quote from Sr White, that even in her time), but especially now since my entrance into the arena there is a condition upon us that is totally insubordinate.

I woke up to this very, very slowly. In reference to myself, I saw myself among my peers in youth as somebody who was of this company. As I continued to read the Spirit of Prophecy I discovered that already in her day the children of that generation were already in such a situation. In other words, our great-great grandparents, my great grandparents were already children of insubordination. How has that unfolded down the history to our time?

It is the boast of the present age. {FE 64.1}

She is talking about 1882.

…that never before did men possess so great facilities for the acquirement of knowledge, or manifest so general an interest in education. Yet despite this vaunted progress, there exists an unparalleled spirit of insubordination and recklessness in the rising generation; {FE 64.1}

This rising generation is my great grandparent’s time. What was ‘the characteristic among them? A spirit of insubordination and recklessness in the rising generation existed.

…mental and moral degeneracy are well-nigh universal. Popular education does not remedy the evil. The lax discipline in many institutions of learning has nearly destroyed their usefulness, and in some cases rendered them a curse rather than a blessing. This fact has been seen and deplored, and earnest efforts have been made to remedy the defects in our educational system. There is urgent need of schools in which the youth may be trained to habits of self-control, application, and self-reliance, of respect for superiors and reverence for God.{FE 64.1}

What was needed back there? What was needed was the ability to control themselves because what we read in 2 Timothy was already applicable then and how much more is it applicable today? How have we deteriorated from the understandings and activities of mind of our great-great grandparents, of my great grandparents? For those of you who are of age to be my children, your great-great grandparents. There is a need to teach them back there self-control, respect for superiors and reverence for God. These things became very big to me as it slowly dawned upon me where I was actually situated. I had to confess to my God that I had ridiculed my father; I had been insubordinate to the counsel of those who had many more years of experience than me.

I discovered right then that even my parents and their parents had already been marred and brushed by this insubordination as I read from the Spirit of Prophecy. I had to swallow hard. This was at the age of 24 when the reformation message really wended its way into my experience and I went back and realised I had to submit myself to the Spirit of Prophecy which I had to a large degree in regards to instruction and correction, poo-hooed.

I had to humble myself, I had to swallow hard and submit myself. As I gained this appreciation and the Lord had pointed me to what I have often quoted, that we are to take their word, (2 Selected Messages pages 109-111), we are to take the words of our pioneers and preach and absorb the way they had presented the message. I took this very seriously. I realised then that everything of my human insubordination which was entrenched in my system had to be totally eradicated, but it wasn’t immediate, it was a process of learning.

I was called into the ministry of the reform movement and there I learned the bitter lessons of giving over to those who were in authority. I took the lessons very seriously because I realised that my own life was marred desperately by that which I had been brought up in. That negativity of insubordination that was surrounding me more than in Sr White’s time that I took as normal. I justified myself and I still look back with bitter tears where I had justified my course when I brought tears to my mother and my father. I needed to make restitution. I adopted the values of those who were grandparents to my parents. From there onwards, after I had adopted those values and those views of seeing the world, I continued to present those values and sought to practice them very closely in my own experience.

I marveled that as the Lord had put me in place and brought me through the experiences of the consequences of my own shortcomings. I marvelled that He would even use me, just as Isaiah expressed Paul expressed. Who is sufficient to be able to stand today and uphold the old values that God had established which have been so marred in the minds of the people to this point in time?

As I made it my prayerful determination that seeing the Lord and church had called me, and has called me all the way through to now, I wanted to express everything in the light of what I have shared with you already. But, oh, as I sought to reflect the high standard of those who were Sr White’s equals, how my expressions in comparison to theirs were so short off the mark! I used to read and I still do read the beautiful words of those people of that age. Have you ever done that and thought, look at how they express themselves? I don’t even know how to express myself like that. They had sacred expressionisms and they expressed things with great care. Even in the world they were sensitive as to how they spoke, much more than any of us do today.

To stand in the pulpit of the Lord in these times was something beyond me. That was the reason why you have been recipients of my presentation of God’s word to use quotes and statements instead of my own words and simply to make a few comments in between to draw our attention back to what those quotes were really saying. Yet, my own words that I expressed in between those quotes were still imperfect enough to receive attacks that are rampant on the internet just now that mar the image of my Lord and Master. You have no idea how this has wrenched my heart, that I have made expressions there that can be so seriously used to mar the high calling that we are meant to be supporting today.

Attacks on the Internet Addressed

In the presence of God together with you, let us seek to identify what these attacks have been on the internet which I know many of us have been subjected to and there are people who have resigned their membership over these expressions. How clumsy of speech I have been for souls to conclude that I postulate myself as the arm of the Lord. Has that come across your attention on the internet, those of you who have looked at it?

In presenting the arm of the flesh and the arm of the Lord it has been concluded from my expressionism that I am postulating as the arm of the Lord, that I am the arm of the Lord; that I am in the place of Moses. This is what has been brought very heavily and it has been put across to me, not only through the internet but some of my own brethren. Let me make it very clear, brethren and sisters, that these sermons that have been identified as me postulating like that, are presented on that subject of the arm of the Lord, they were presented with the design to look for the arm of the Lord active in His servants, not in me only. When we look at how the servants of God who have been teaching and upholding the messages in Sr White’s time, the pioneers were being attacked by modern Adventists today.

The purpose of sharing those messages was to alleviate out of the minds that it is not man that is speaking but it is the arm of the Lord manifest through those servants. I laid out the context of those sermons for that purpose. To take my words that I have clumsily expressed and apply them differently to what I had intended and thereby mar God’s image and throw them across the internet, that really has hurt me. I am using this opportunity to let you know that those expressions of my own that have been taken differently to what I intended have to be cleaned away. Don’t rely upon my expressions, but rely on a thus saith the Lord.

Womaniser

The sermon that I shared at Camp Obadiah, those beautiful subjects that Br Paul and I shared, the pearl of great price; it was a joy to share the beautiful saving grace that is practical, that is an impactful message of hope for the sinner. Those messages have been taken horribly in a wrong slant. When I expressed in the very sermon that you will hear them say that I am a womaniser, I expressed that if that was the case that was all forgiven by this beautiful story of Christ. I did not seek to refute the accusations that are levelled upon me, but instead of using very valuable language it was understood that I was making a confession. I am sorry. It was not a confession; it was simply a useless exercise to try to refute an accusation. You know what it was when Jesus was accused for all sorts of things, He kept His mouth shut. All I did was to show in that message of beautiful hope and comfort, that when we are accused of something we don’t have to go and justify ourselves. All we have to do is either be silent or uphold the beautiful love of Jesus so that accusation can be all washed away. That is what the message was. I don’t need to say any more on that issue because I have no interest in being a womaniser, none whatsoever and I never have.

Papal

The sermon in which I expressed, you will recall these words, “and your future is dependent on the manner of my communication to you”. This has been plastered across the internet to make it sound that I was in a spirit of the papacy. That what I am sharing with you is going to be your future and you have to obey me like you have to obey the pope. That statement that I expressed was never to convey that I regarded myself as a people’s criteria. Never do I believe that and I want that to be totally understood to all who hear this message. What I was actually representing was a quote from the Spirit of Prophecy which said that in general the people will rise no higher than their ministers if the ministers are not converted, the people will be affected by the minister’s lack of conversion.

Unless the ministers are converted, the people will not be. {4T 445.1}

That is when I said very clearly that the manner in which I communicate God’s word if you will listen to me and not to the voice of Jesus speaking, you will be affected by what I say, by my lack of conversion. The Spirit of Prophecy says that the people will rise no higher than their ministers, in general.

“The church will rarely take a higher stand than is taken by her ministers.” Testimonies, vol, 5, p 227.

There are many other points which I am not going to recite here because they are numerous and it would be absolutely impossible to clear every little quote that has been cited on the internet to take that clumsy expression away. The principle that I want to share here is that I confess before God the language that has been difficult for me to express to what was actually trying to be conveyed.

Heirs of God

There is another one that is very serious in reference to the attack upon God and His position and our position toward Him. Do you remember the sermon about heirs of God? I expressed in that sermon that if God could die, I tried to illustrate what an heir of God is. I did some foolish expression there; if God could die then you would be in His place afterwards. Expressions of this nature are destructive to a person who doesn’t really clearly understand what you are trying to communicate. Let us allow God’s word to clarify exactly what was meant in my words, that we come away with a clean understanding of the amazing mercy and goodness of God.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.

Here the actual language is just as it reads, we are as children of God, and we are heirs of God:

Galatians 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

As Jesus is speaking to the people of Laodicea, Jesus is saying after He said I stand at the door and knock, if any man open I will come in and sup with him, then He says:

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

What is Jesus saying here? Jesus was sitting in His Father’s throne and if we are sitting with Him in His throne, where are we sitting? In the Father’s throne, that is the way it is written. When I shared those things, I was conscious of many statements in the Spirit of Prophecy and I will just share two with you that I did not share at that time.

Once more Paul has an opportunity to uplift before a wondering multitude the banner of the cross. As he gazes upon the throng before him,–Jews, Greeks, Romans, with strangers from many lands,–his soul is stirred with an intense desire for their salvation. He loses sight of the occasion, of the perils surrounding him, of the terrible fate that seems so near. He sees only Jesus, the Intercessor, pleading before God in behalf of sinful men. With more than human eloquence and power, Paul presents the truths of the gospel. He points his hearers to the sacrifice made for the fallen race. He declares that an infinite price has been paid for man’s redemption. Provision has been made for him to share the throne of God. {AA 494.3}

What has been made provision for? By the beautiful gospel of Jesus Christ, God was prepared to share His throne with all who are part of the atonement of Christ. What does that mean? That is for you to conclude. I am not going to use any more of my own words, but the language is pretty simple.

Those who obey God are counted worthy to share his throne, {RH, December 15, 1896 par. 1}

In that particular sermon I have been laid out as speaking blasphemy, that I have communicated an idea that I wanted to be in the place of the Godhead. In that sermon it was represented that I was blaspheming. This was never meant that such words should be interpreted that we will gleefully usurp His throne. No, no. It is an amazing shock to the system that God would be prepared through Jesus Christ to share His throne with us. Doesn’t that make you fall down in shameful amazement? This is what the intentions were to communicate – the beauty of God’s word, God’s grace. As I mentioned, what a shortfall and clumsiness of speech has been my experience in my effort to share those thoughts.

Watching for Souls

My grief is intensified as I look back at the effort of prayer and labour to reach out for people who were coming into our church, who came out of the world, out of error. When I think of the labour it takes to help people to come out of that error step by step by finding God’s Word that is most relevant to help them understand; as this labour, this agonising work was taking place in the lives of the people that have come to us, my clumsy expressions have caused them grief. Some have resigned even now because of these mistaken expressions, this grieves me deeply.

The work today is to bring into submission all of us including me, into the submission of the understanding of God’s high calling that is so marred in the eyes of modern Christianity today.

Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of [their] conversation.

These words jangle in the ears of modern people today. Originally they caused me concern, but then I saw the beauty of it as I resigned myself to the brethren who were ruling over me.

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you.

To apply these words in action today in my labours over the years, is an extremely delicate work.

Those in official positions, in their association with others, should make it as easy as possible for those under their charge to take heed to the direction of God’s word, to obey those that have the rule over them. {BEcho December 9, 1901.8}

Is this a direction from God’s word to obey them that have the rule over you?

It is always right to remember that all minds are not constituted alike, and it is like a death struggle for some to surrender their wills in submission to those who are placed over them. {BEcho, December 9, 1901 par. 8}

Have you ever met that death struggle? It must be remembered, that because of our minds being constituted differently it is like a death struggle to surrender our wills in submission to those who are placed over us. Is that right? When I have been clumsy with my words I can well understand that the call for submission is like a death struggle. I don’t want to convey the thought that anybody is to obey me. Never. I want to convey the thought to obey those that I am obeying, that is what my message is. To obey those that I am obeying because I am so marred in these last days with the spirit of insubordination that I don’t want anybody to think that I am going to stand over anybody in this church and say here, here, obey me. This is the truth of my motive and I want it to be recorded as the fact. I don’t want to make people rely on John Thiel; I want people to rely on the Lord working through the people whom He has designated as His servants. I simply draw the attention of everybody to the servants who have gone before us. This is the all-important objective.

Counsel to Safeguard Unity

To us who are working together and are still members of this church, please heed the following counsel that comes from the Testimony of Jesus.

“If Satan can employ professed believers to act as accusers of the brethren, he is justly pleased; for those who do this are just as truly serving him as was Judas when he betrayed Christ, although they may be doing it ignorantly. Satan is no less active now than in Christ’s day, and those who lend themselves to do his work will manifest his spirit. {TM 504.2}

“Floating rumors are often the destroyers of unity among brethren. There are some who watch with open mind and ears to catch flying scandal. They gather up little incidents which may be trifling in themselves, but which are repeated and exaggerated until a man is made an offender for a word. Their motto seems to be, ‘Report, and we will report it.’ These talebearers are doing Satan’s work with surprising fidelity, little knowing how offensive their course is to God. The door of the mind should be closed against ‘They say,’ or ‘I have heard.’ Why should we not, instead of allowing jealousy or evil surmising to come into our hearts, go to our brethren, and after frankly but kindly setting before them the things we have heard detrimental to their character and influence, pray with and for them? While we cannot fellowship with those who are the bitter enemies of Christ, we should cultivate that spirit of meekness and love that characterized our Master– a love that thinketh no evil, and is not easily provoked. {TM 504.3}

This is a love that thinketh no evil. Jude 1:9 gave us a wonderful understanding in reference to accusations. Jesus our great example did not raise one railing accusation against whom? Against Satan. Let us follow Jesus’ example and permit no railing accusation to come from our lips upon any one, even upon the ones that are putting these ugly things onto the internet. I have to confess I could have done it better, that is all for me to say. All there is for us to do is to simply be like Christ; no railing accusation.

To conclude with, let us understand in reference to the words and expressions that we hear from each other, especially words and expressions that come from the pulpit, albeit sometimes that they are clumsy and I make no excuse but for our sake of dealing with each other in love and unity, let us take on board the understanding that human expressionism is human and it makes an impact upon people of different minds differently.

Human minds vary. The minds of different education and thought receive different impressions of the same words, and it is difficult for one mind to give to one of a different temperament, education, and habits of thought by language exactly the same idea as that which is clear and distinct in his own mind. Yet to honest men, right-minded men, he can be so simple and plain as to convey his meaning for all practical purposes. If the man he communicates with is not honest and will not want to see and understand the truth, he will turn his words and language in everything to suit his own purposes. He will misconstrue his words, play upon his imagination, wrest them from their true meaning, and then entrench himself in unbelief, claiming that the sentiments are all wrong. {1SM 19.1}

It is difficult sometimes to find words to express what is going on within and by using words that are not always best chosen, somebody of a different mind of a different education of a different temperament, will be inadvertently going to put a different construction upon the meaning of the word that was chosen by the one who speaks. This is impossible to totally eradicate, but indeed if it has been misunderstood the effort needs to be made. I do not make many efforts to try to clarify anything, I have been silent in regards to what has been on the internet to this point in time but this is the one and only time I am levelling it very clearly for all to understand what is actually afoot.

The writers of the Bible had to express their ideas in human language. It was written by human men. These men were inspired of the Holy Spirit. Because of the imperfections of human understanding of language, or the perversity of the human mind, ingenious in evading truth, many read and understand the Bible to please themselves. {1SM 19.3}

They use the Bible words in a way that the Bible is never meant to be read and that happens with Sr White as well. That is why we have so many varied ideas of what is written. We must be guarded carefully.

“God has been pleased to communicate His truth to the world by human agencies, and He Himself, by His Holy Spirit, qualified men and enabled them to do His work. He guided the mind in the selection of what to speak and what to write. The treasure was entrusted to earthen vessels, yet it is, none the less, from Heaven. The testimony is conveyed through the imperfect expression of human language, yet it is the testimony of God; {1SM 26.1}

It is my prayer that we will heed the understanding that comes from the Spirit of Prophecy by which we will be able to safeguard our unity and communications with each other to not take people and make them offenders for a word.

I am not just talking about me now, I am talking about what I hear communicated from one person to the next in our community. I have heard people reporting things about others that I know they did not mean, but they were taken to mean that way. Don’t do this brethren. Let us lay down these kinds of activities. Let us love one another, let us respond to one another in a loving patient spirit realising what a person is saying is often different to the way I understand them. This needs to be understood so that we can safeguard our unity because we are embracing the message today which is very short in the rest of the Adventist circles. They have some of the truth and some error. We are trying to stand on all that has been presented by the pioneers and we are trying to uphold the platform of truth. Let us remember that is our cause, that is what we are seeking to uphold and may God grant us to be faithful in this work according to the way God’s word is showing us. This is my prayer, in Jesus’ name.

Amen.