04 Primitive Godliness

Audio: Primitive Godliness

It is said in the Bible that the dragon was wrath with the woman.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This is a description of the people living just before Jesus comes. What comes after the remnant? Nothing. The remnant is the end but the remnant is part of something that has been. If you had a garment or some cloth and you had sold all the cloth and you have a bit left, the last bit at the end, what is that called? The remnant. The remnant is exactly the same as what the original was. These people aren’t like the apostolic church, they are the apostolic church. The dragon was wrath with such a people and he went to make war with this remnant living right at the end. Hasn’t Satan always been at war with Gods people? Indeed he has but at the end there is something that is going to be far more aggressive than in the past. Of these people it says;

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads. 2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

This dragon was wrath with these people and went to make war with them but they overcame. We want to consider what they had to overcome as they overcame by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony. This victory that overcomes the world is what? Their faith and the faith that begot them.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

The Stone That Smote This Image

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

Where did the stone hit the image? In the feet. Where do we live today? In the feet. What is to happen today? The image must be destroyed today. It is our privilege in the days in which we live to be in this time where God has prophesied that this image would be destroyed.

2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

When were the feet of iron and clay broken? When the stone hit it. When were the legs broken? At the same time. When was the gold and silver broken? All at the same time? That can’t be right because in 538 didn’t Medo Persia take over Babylon.  In 331BC didn’t Greece take over Medo Persia. In 168BC didn’t Rome take over Greece. Why is it in the days of these kings when the rock or kingdom shall be set up that then it is that the gold, silver, brass and iron is broken? Why?

Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld [even] till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Where did John look down to? He looked down to the end and he observed this beast till it was totally destroyed. The scripture says it wasn’t found anymore.

7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

This is the destruction of the beast, the iron and clay mingled together. The ten horns or toes are is totally abolished and no residue of it left. It is gone and finished but the way the other kingdoms were replaced, their dominion was taken away yet Babylon’s life was prolonged. So it is with Medo Persia. The Medo Persian kingdom was taken away but the life was prolonged. It is the same with Greece, it is prolonged until today. Today Babylon must be destroyed. That there is no residue of that place ever again moreover Medo Persia must be destroyed and Greece must be destroyed today. Will you do it? Will you overcome these nations? We understand that the 144,000 have gotten the victory over the kingdoms of this earth. Babylon is known to have astrologers. Is that still around today? Astrologers? The king went to the astrologers, soothsayers but no one was as wise as Daniel. Is spiritualism alive today? Babylon exists today. Who had a babylonish garment? Achan. That was 1200 years before Babylon ruled the world. Can you have a babylonish garment when Babylon doesn’t rule the world now? The practises of that city have been prolonged and carried on. So it is also with Medo Persia.

Medo Persia is in an interesting nation. Under Medo Persia King Darius helped business by making taxation uniform and systematic. This is what Persia did. Darius also standardized weight and units of money. Does that happen today? A one world situation to make it all even. There was also a great highway built under Darius. It was called the Persian Royal Road. It extended 2500kms across the Middle East. This highway was of good quality. It opened up a postal service similar to what the Americans had, the Pony Express. The Persians had the same system. As this road was made, it was 1600 miles long and it made the Middle East one big market place. Thanks to Darius the entire Middle East became a common market. Has that happened today? Economy, wealth, trade, this all happened under the Persian Empire. The covetousness of this world, the desire to trade with other people must be overcome. Is it wrong to trade? The way of the world is. They trade in stocks and things that don’t exist. This must be overcome. Primitive trading is okay but todays complicated trading is not what we need to be involved in.


Does Greece still exist today?

As the passover and the feast of tabernacles called the Hebrew race together, and promoted unity and a love of God, so the Greek games gathered that people together, promoting one common language, religion, and law. God’s people met for spiritual worship; the Greeks for physical or intellectual enjoyment. p. 207, The history of Greece is the history of physical and intellectual culture. The people admired grace and beauty, and her literary minds worshiped the intellect. Plato, the greatest of Greek philosophers, lived about four hundred years before Christ,. p. 207, DANIEL THE PROPHET BY STEPHEN HASKELL

What has permeated the world since then? Philosophy..

…and his teachings have led the thoughts of writers in every age since then. The Jews mingled the teachings of the Bible with the philosophy of Plato, and that formed the traditions of men, against which Christ so often warned His followers. The false philosophy, and the “science falsely so called: of Paul’s time, was Greek teaching, which breathed the spirit of Plato and his students. P 207. DANIEL THE PROPHET BY STEPHEN HASKELL

Isn’t it lovely to think about all sorts of good things even the truth of God? To get your mind to run through all the veins of the Bible and to enjoy mind exercise. When it comes to the practical things of life, nothing changes. This is the kingdom of Greece. The whole Jewish teaching was Hellenised. When John the Baptist was born his mother and father were commanded to leave the city of Jerusalem. Christ himself never entered the school of his day because of the mixture of the truth of God with heathen philosophy. Did Christ overcome the world? He overcame Greece along with all the others.

But what Greece would not gain in territory she did gain as a teacher of nations, and although she finally lost all territorial supremacy, though, like the kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar, the tree was cut down, yet the roots remain unto this day. More than once, as an intellectual power, has Greece arisen. Throughout the intellectual world she has votaries bowing before her shrine — the mind of man. Her philosophy is to-day studied under the guise of modern writers; her ideas are instilled into the minds of children, from the kindergarten to the university, and students are graduated from the schools of the land knowing much more of the mythology of Greece than they do of the religion of Jesus Christ; better acquainted with Greek heroes than with the man of Calvary. Greek learning still rules the world, and it will until the setting up of the everlasting kingdom of God — till the stone cut out without hands shall fill the earth. p. 224, DANIEL THE PROPHET BY STEPHEN HASKELL

The philosophy of the Greeks was to have universities and mind culture and it is always connected with sport. Isn’t that what the Greeks did? They came out with the Olympic games and so the education of the mind was connected with sport. They were bundled together and we have it living very well today.


What is the description of such a beast that came out of the sea that represented Rome? It was represented as iron. It ruled and crushed everyone under it. Rome was the dictator of the world. Rome was the most perfected governments of them all. When Rome came in it was diverse from the rest. How? Did it have a king when it took the world over? It was a republic. They had a system of voting. This form of government was diverse from all the rest and it was the oppression of the world through the iron. Controlled government and dictatorship is represented in Rome. Does that live today? How are we going to control the masses? We have the fashions of this world, spiritualism, commerce, money making, education, sports and we want to control the masses. This is what we live in today. If you consider we shouldn’t get involved in fashion or spiritualism or money making in a negative way, philosophy or education, what on earth do we do? It is like going back to the Stone Age. What would you do?  Well that’s the precise thing of the message. It is primitive godliness that is represented in the 144,000. They are the remnant, the left overs. They have not been defiled with women. They have not yielded to this world. They have gained the victory of the mark of the beast, over his image and the mark of his name. They have overcome it. Will you strive to be among such a people?

1 John 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

How long did the kingdom of heaven last? Forever. The systems of this world, the lifestyles that have been passed down through all four kingdoms will pass away. If we engage ourselves in these lifestyles represented in these kingdoms we will also pass away but he that does the will of God will abide forever.

Before the final visitation of God’s judgments upon the earth, there will be, among the people of the Lord, such a revival of primitive Godliness as has not been witnessed since apostolic times. The Spirit and power of God will be poured out upon His children. . . {FLB 326.2}

What does the latter rain produce? Primitive godliness, nothing like this world. It will not produce new fashions or desire this world or intellectual refinement through intellectual philosophy and it will not pursue dictatorship. That is primitive of godliness, the spirit of God, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit will produce this.

At that time many will separate themselves from those churches in which the love of this world has supplanted love for God and His Word. {FLB 326.2}

Do you love any of those kingdoms? Any of them? Maybe you’re not greedy for money but do you love your Babylonish garment? Or do you love philosophy and thinking of thinks and not doing them? It’s lovely to dream. It is beautiful but unless it wrought out practical fruits, they’re all in vain. Do we love these things? Do we love dictatorship? Controlling other people and telling other people what to do? Do we get a power trip? This is the love of the world. All that is in the world, the pride of life.

Many, both of ministers and people, will gladly accept those great truths which God has caused to be proclaimed at this time, {FLB 326.2}

That is her day.

…to prepare a people for the Lord’s second coming.. . . {FLB 326.2}

Do you strive to be among these people? To have primitive Godliness and go back to the stone age of religion and to the foundations of Eden.  Do you like that? If we do then we need to be prepared for his coming by putting these things off.

It is only as the law of God is restored to its rightful position that there can be a revival of primitive faith and Godliness among His professed people. “Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.” Jeremiah 6:16. {FLB 326.5}

The victory will be yours if you look back to the history of Gods church and its purity. In the apostolic times, did the apostles oppose spiritualism? Do we know?

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.

15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Here is the apostolic church and God says I have called you out of the world. As he called them out he said you will be hated of the world. War is the epitome of hatred. The dragon was wrath with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed that live in a primitive way against the kingdoms of this world. But you are not of the world. We know according to the words of Jesus Christ that the apostolic church at the beginning was primitive Godliness. That is the bench mark. Did the apostles oppose spiritualism? Apostle Paul had gone through the Isles of Paphos and found a false prophet.

Acts 13:6 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus:

13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

He was a Jew claiming to be a prophet and he was what? A sorcerer. Are there movements in Christendom today that claim to be prophets and engage in things that are spiritualistic and spiritualism? That comes from Babylon. It is written that Babylon is confusion. Its babble and it happens today, people babble. Did the apostles oppose the greed of wealth? You know the story of Ananias and Saphirra. They pledged a certain amount to the church. It was an option. They swore an oath that when they sold their land they would give the entire proceedings to God. What happened to these people? They were struck down dead and great fear came upon all the church and so it needs to be today. To rip someone of is to do with Persia always wanting to get a good deal and they ripped God of. Withholding tithe that belongs to God or the church using tithes to invest in stocks, does that happen today? To buy shares in National Australia Bank. The Seventh Day Adventist Australian Union in Australia lost millions of dollars in investments of tithe in the stock market because Persia exists today in the church. The church is run by accountants more interested in the money bag than the spreading of the gospel. Is Greek philosophy, is that in the church?

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

How did the traditions of men come about? Interweaving the philosophy of the world into the truth. There was truth in them yet the philosophy was mingled with them. A bit like white and black mingled together. A bit like a leopard. Isn’t a leopard spotted? A bit of truth and error mingled together.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

There are so many Jesus’s preached today. There are so many gospels preached today. If we desire to be among this people, we must be primitive. The simple facts of the Bible, apostolic teaching which is righteousness by faith which leads to the fruits of the spirit. The apostolic church opposed Rome. Did it hold out Rome from its teachings and mentality?

Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

Who is Jesus speaking about? The princes of the gentiles. Who was ruling in the days of Jesus Christ? Rome, Herod and Pilate. You know all these kings and this is what they do. This is Rome. They exercise dominion over their subjects. They are patrons and the others proteges.

Matthew 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

It is well for leaders to study the life of Christ how he dealt with his people and the way he dealt with his people is how we are to deal. The apostolic church opposed Rome. It opposed Babylon, Medo Persia, Greece and Rome.

1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight [thereof], not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

5:3 Neither as being Lords over [God’s] heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

How do you have influence over the church? By an example of your life. Jesus declared the scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses seat. Everything they say do, but don’t do after their works as they say and do not.

The Influence of Rome

As professed reformers and professed followers of the Bible, we understand we shouldn’t be involved in spiritualism and fashions of this world and greed for money. This issue of Rome being in the church is the canker of today. As the setting of this kingdom is taking place, when was the kingdom is to be set up? When the judgment began. The judgement began after the persecution the wearing out of the saints. In 1844 there was the beginning of the sealing of the 144,000. Those in the Philadelphian period that would be pillars in the temple of God having the name of God on their forehead. These people were included in the 144,000. These people must have been holding primitive Godliness. It was that a lot of worldliness was given up under the judgement hour message. Did people leave their farms? They really believed Jesus was coming, they left it all. They got rid of the fashions of the world. They got down to basic Bible study not the philosophy of the theologians. These people gave the judgement hour message. As it developed these people set up an organisation. How was it set up? James White declared the following in 1881. He desired something as the system it was set up on was apostolic.

“Organization was designed to secure unity of action, and as a protection from imposture. It was never intended as a scourge to compel obedience, but, rather, for the protection of the people of God. Christ does not drive his people. He calls them. “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” Our living Head leads the way, and calls His people to follow. Human creeds cannot produce unity. Church force cannot press the church into one body. Christ never designed that human minds should be molded for Heaven by the influence merely of other human minds. “The head of every man is Christ.” His part is to lead, and to mold, and to stamp his own image upon the heirs of eternal glory. However important organization may be for the protection of the church, and to secure harmony of action, it must not come in to take the disciple from the hands of the Master.” James White, Review and Herald.

Organisation is very important. The nearer we come to the end the more essential it is to be organised. But organisation must never take the person out of the hands of the master. Never.  You can write a creed of what you believe and put it in front. That sort of creed will never do anything for the church. A church creed cannot produce unity.  To tell people to get along doesn’t work. You can’t force people to get along.

“But here we wish it distinctly understood that officers were not ordained-in the Christian church to order or to command the church, or to “Lord it over God’s heritage.” James White, Review and Herald.

This is what the primitive people in the Advent movement laid out. It needs to be distinctly understood. Get that right in your head. That the ordination of ministers or people of leadership were never to become Lords over the flock. Never was it ever intended to be like that.

“In the case of difference of opinion that arose in some of the primitive churches relative to circumcision and the keeping of the law of Moses, recorded in the fifteenth chapter of Acts, the apostles and elders at Jerusalem acted as counsellors in a manner to give room for the Holy Ghost to sit as Judge.” James White, Review and Herald.

Is there a difference between a counsellor and a director? There is a big difference. This is what we need to understand. They’re just counsellors. Who is the king? Christ is the head of every man. He is the king of this kingdom but people say we don’t want him to rule over us, we want our own king. That’s what they say.  It must not be amongst us.  They should act as counsellors.

“Between the two extremes, of church force, and unsanctified independence, we find the grand secret of unity and efficiency in the ministry and in the church of God.” James White, Review and Herald.

Between the two extremes there are people that want to be independent do and say what they like and go where they like and have no one to answer accept just preach their own thing.  They are unsanctified independents. We say we don’t want to do that and we have church force which is worse. What is worse the left or right side of the bridge? You end up in the same place. There is a fine line between the two extremes.  Primitive Godliness will find the right balance.

“The General Conference takes the general supervision of the work in all its branches, including the State Conferences, The State Conference takes the supervision of all branches of the work in the State, including the churches in that State. And the church is a body of Christians associated together with the simple covenant to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. The officers of a local church are servants of that church, and not Lords to rule over it with church force. “He that is greatest among you shall be your servant.” Matt. 23:11.” Ibid.  James White, Review and Herald.

We should be coming in the opposite relationship that Rome has. We are to become servants to one another, to help each other in the duties of life. There needs to be a service given to the people of God.

“These officers should met examples of patience, watchfulness, prayer, kindness, and liberality, to the members of the church, and should manifest a good degree of that love to those they serve exhibited in the life and teachings of our Lord.” Ibid. James White, Review and Herald.

The servant of God is to watch. What is going on?  How does he correct if he can’t Lord it? The scripture says I charge you before God preach the word. What happens when there is a problem in the church? I go to the brother and say you must do this and that or do I preach the principle that is contained in the situation from the bible?  When the Bible is speaking? Who is speaking? God, because it is his word. Then who is doing the correcting? God. If it is not in the Bible or Spirit of Prophecy, be careful not to tell anyone anything. Be careful that you don’t Lord it.

“In the fulfillment of the duties of their office, in taking the general supervision of the entire work, their strength is in so counseling with their brethren in the spirit of tenderness and love as to bind the hearts, of all the laborers to their hearts, and give room for the voice of the Holy Ghost. As was manifested in the days of the apostles. They should ever bear in mind that the head of every man is Christ. They may counsel with the State Conference Committees in reference to ministers laboring here or there, but should never direct. “The head of every man [every minister], is Christ.” The minister who throws himself on any Conference Committee for direction, takes himself out of the hands of Christ.” James White, Review and Herald.

If there is a good idea talk about it but should never direct.

“And that Committee that takes into its own hands the work of directing the ambassadors for Christ, takes a fearful responsibility: “One is your Master [Leader], even Christ, and all ye are brethren.” Matt. 23:8. May God preserve to us our organization and form of church discipline in its original simplicity and efficiency.” James White, Review and Herald.

That was written in 1881. A number of years later Ellen White wrote;

There is coming in among us a spirit which God will not suffer to rule. Never should Christians feel that they are Lords over God’s heritage. There should not be among Christians a spirit which makes some patrons and some proteges. The commandments of God forbid this. “All ye are brethren” (Matthew 23:8). No man is to think that he is the owner of the minds and capabilities of his brethren. {TDG 192.3}

It is only as the law of God is restored to its rightful position that there can be a revival of primitive faith and godliness among his professed people. {GENERAL CONFERENCE88 478.3}

If we are to have righteousness by faith what must we need? We must need a big standard, a high standard nothing short of it. When we fail, may the Lord lead us to Christ and faith takes root. Righteousness by faith comes because of a high standard. If right by faith was the fourth angel mustn’t the commandments of God to be held in hits height in order to have the primitive faith?

He is not to think that others must submit to his dictation. He is liable to err, liable to make mistakes, as every man is. He is not to try to control matters in accordance with his ideas. {TDG 192.3}

How hard is that to do? It is the pride of life. Rome lives in each one of us. In the 1800’s in Adventism something was taking place. That original simplicity established in 1864 was becoming changed. They had at the beginning a president simply a presiding person in the meetings but as time went on the name president took on a different meaning. The name president took on a different meaning. As history went on, read the history of Butler. He introduced the power of the president and its committee. Then there was warning. James White wrote that the Lord would preserve this type of simple type of organisation and then he died. Then in 1900 a spirit came in that would make some proteges and patrons. What happened in 1901 before the General Conference started there was a meeting in the library hall of Battle Creek and the Ellen White wanted to speak to the leaders.

The leaders of the regular lines, they must have and entire change, an entire new organization, and to have a committee that shall take in not merely half a dozen, that is to be a ruling and controlling power, but it is to have representatives of those that are placed in responsibility in our educational interests, in our Sanitariums. {SpM 163.1}

…then there should be a renovation without any delay. To have this conference pass on and close up as the conferences have done, with the same manipulating, with the very same tone, and the same order,–God forbid! (Voices, “Amen”) God forbid, brethren. And until this shall come we might just as well close up the conference today as any other day. {SpM 163.2}

This thing has been continuing for the last fifteen years or more, 1901. Fifteen years began in 1886. It started coming in. James White was seeing it he wrote his article in the 1800’s and by the time Minneapolis came the General Conference already had its power and that power stopped righteousness by faith is it not? She writes something has to change.

Now God wants a change, and it is high time, it is high time that here was ability that should connect with the conference, with the General Conference, right here in this city; not wait until it is done, and then find, – not wait till it is all done and over with, and then gather up the forces and see what can be done. We want to know what can be done right here; {SpM 164.3}

Now from the light that I have, as it was presented to me in figures: There was a narrow compass here; there within that narrow is a king-like, kingly ruling power. {SpM 163.1}

God means what he says, he says, I want change here. That is what God says, I want change here. There was a compass, a kingly power. Someone may say if we have a committee is that kingly power? Is that kingly power just one man?  Anytime there is one person that arises with some influences chop him down as that is kingly power. It doesn’t matter how many men make the power, it is how it relates itself. You know in the scriptures that the beast that the woman sat on was seven hills and the seven hills were seven kings. What city has seven hills? Rome. The seven kings, five are fallen one is and one is to come. Rome had seven different types of leadership? 753BC Rome was a kingdom and a kingdom has what? They had a king and it made them no different to any other kingdom in the world but the Bible says when they took supremacy over the world they were diverse form the rest. Why were they diverse?  In 508 Rome became a republic.

They had an election.  They elected a president or a dictator.  One person they elected.  No longer by royal line anymore it was by election they did this.  They had a king and then they had a dictatorship, a president and then Rome decided to change the way it ran and it had a decemvirate which means they had ten men ruling Rome. That was one of the heads of Rome of this beast. The seven mountains, the seven kings. How many men? Ten. They also then had a change as it didn’t work. Then they had two men called consular and each had the power of veto so if they didn’t agree it couldn’t get done. Isn’t that a good way of doing it. This was Rome, it wasn’t a good way of doing it. Two men were ruling that nation. Was it good enough? No. Then they had three men. One of those men was Julius Caesar. In 27BC he kicked off the other three and Rome ceased to be an Empire. Then they had the king and then they had one man and then how many men? Two men, three men, and ten men. It is still Rome. Doesn’t matter how many man. Dictatorship was dictatorship. In the days of John who was ruling? Rome. Now the sixth is ruling. One is and one is to come. Who is that? Our friend the pope. He is to rule. A king in the Bible doesn’t mean one person. It can mean one, ten or fifteen people. If they dictate that is a king. That is what the Bible states.

From the light that I have had for some time, and has been expressed, has been expressed over and over again, not to all there are here, but has been expressed to individuals, and the plans that God would have all to work from, that never should one mind or two minds or three minds nor four minds, or a few minds I should say, be considered of sufficient wisdom and power to control and mark out plans and let it rest upon the minds of one or two or three in regard to this broad, broad field that we have; {SpM162.4}


The Lord had shown her that the number of men didn’t make it any better. A T Jones is writing to A G Daniels. Don’t we love A G Daniels? Don’t people protest against A G Daniels and what he did? Was that a kingly power? Absolutely.  This is the root of it. It took years to come to fruition.

In the General Conference of 1901 the general conference started toward the call for reorganisation.  All understand that the call was away from a centralised order of things in which one man or two men or a few men, had been ruling and dictating power to an organisation in which all the people as individuals should have a part with God in Christ by the Holy Spirit as the unifying and directing power. A T JONES 1906.

That was to happen in 1901 when Ellen White spoke so plainly to the General Conference there was a turn to the original way of organisation. Notice what happened in 1901, you might be surprised.

“In this understanding an entire new constitution was adopted”. A T Jones.

They reorganised in 1901 under the direction of the spirit of God through the prophet.

“In this understanding an entire constitution was adopted.  Such was an understanding in adopting this constitution is plainly shown in the discussions.  Under this constitution the General Conference committee was composed by a large number of men with power to organise itself by choosing a chairman.  No president of the General Conference was chosen nor was provided for.” A T Jones 1906

“The presidency of the General Conference was eliminated to escape a centralised power and one man power, a kingship or monarchy, the constitution was framed and adopted at the end in accordance with the whole guiding through the conference from the beginning in that room in the college building.” A T Jones 1906

In 1901 under the guidance of the Holy Spirit they did not have a president. It was gone, no more. That was primitive godliness but it didn’t last. A T Jones was quite upset with A G Daniels because of what happened after. After all this it was not long before the whole spirit and principle of the General Conference organisation and affairs began to be reversed again.

“The spirit of reaction became so strife and so rank that sometime before the General Conference of 1903, at Oakland California, two men or three men or a few men I should say, being together in Battle Creek or somewhere else and without any kind of authority but directly against the words of the constitution took it absolutely upon themselves to elect you president and brother Prescott vice president of the General Conference and that then there never was in the universe a clear piece of usurpation of position, power and authority, you two were then of right just as much president and vice president of Timbuktu of the Seventh Day Adventist General Conference.” A T Jones 1906

Go and rule Timbuktu because it was not in order.  A G Daniels, Prescott and also Dr Kellogg and others. Kellogg didn’t just invent pantheism, he invented dictatorship also. We speak of kingly power against Kellogg, he was part of that, it was more than just pantheism. In 1903 they had a meeting.

“I stated that the general present order of the general conference in 1906 affairs is thoroughly bureaucratic government.”  A T Jones.

What is bureaucratic? Dictators, bureaucrats, red tape, sound familiar?  Don’t we have that today?  That before you do anything you have to lay your plans at the General Conference and they must approve it and if you speak against the General Conference you are in trouble for speaking against them. This is bureaucratic government, is it a simple form of government? Absolutely not.  It is so complicated, they have so many board meetings you never get anything done. A ship could be going down and you would have to have a board meeting to see what to do about it. That is bureaucracy. You would never get anything done. That is the definition of bureaucracy. A bureaucracy is sure to think that its duty is to augment official power, business, rather than to leave free the energies of mankind.


In 1901 they had no president. The had a large number of people and they were counsellors. Ellen White writes in 1903. We have heard this statement a few times but in the light of the dates of when it was written and the meeting held in Battle Creek, secret meeting where A G Daniels and Prescott were elected president and vice president which has its sure results in the war issue.

After I received word in regard to the excellent meeting of confession and unity that had been held in Battle Creek I was writing in my diary and was about to record the thankfulness I felt because a change had come, when my hand was arrested, and there came to me the words: “Write it not. No change for the better has taken place. Teachings that are turning souls from the truth are being presented as of great worth. {8T 231.2}

That was pantheism.

Doctrines are being taught that lead into bypaths and forbidden paths; doctrines that lead men to act in harmony with their own inclinations and to work out their unsanctified purposes; doctrines that, if received, would destroy the dignity and power of God’s people, obscuring the light that would otherwise come to them through God’s appointed agencies.” {8T 231.2}

See what they were stopping? They were stopping the holy spirit. Pantheism was being taught. Is org a doctrine? Absolutely it is a teaching of Jesus Christ. There was a doctrine that was going to weaken the people of God.

The leaders in our medical work at Battle Creek have endeavored to bind our medical institutions fast, in accordance with their plans. Notwithstanding the many warnings given them that this should not be done, they have desired to bind up these institutions in some way so that all our medical work shall be under their control. {8T 231.3}

“In establishing and developing medical institutions, our brethren must not be asked to work in accordance with the plans of a kingly, ruling power. A change must be brought about. The plan to fasten every medical institution to the central organization at Battle Creek must be relinquished. This plan God forbids. {8T 232.3}

“For years I have been instructed that there is danger, constant danger, that our brethren will look to their fellow men for permission to do this or that, instead of looking to God. Thus they become weaklings, and permit themselves to be bound with man-made restrictions disapproved by God. The Lord can impress minds and consciences to do His work under bonds to Him, and in a spirit of fraternity that is in accordance with the principles of His law. . . . {8T 232.4}

The church becomes weak, the ministers become weak ad then it is really up to the General Conference to hold everything together. They are the only strong ones. They make themselves fat upon the cost of the sheep of the flock.

“The division of the General Conference into District Union Conferences was God’s arrangement. In the work of the Lord for these last days there should be no Jerusalem centers, no kingly power. And the work in the different countries is not to be bound by contracts to the work centering in Battle Creek, for this is not God’s plan. {8T 232.6}

For example the General Conference cannot tell another country to form a union and can’t enforce that as it is not written in the law of God that it must be.

Brethren are to counsel together, for we are just as much under the control of God in one part of His vineyard as in another. Brethren are to be one in heart and soul, even as Christ and the Father are one. Teach this, practice this, that we may be one with Christ in God, all working to build up one another. {8T 232.6}

“The kingly power formerly revealed in the General Conference at Battle Creek is not to be perpetuated. {8T 233.1}

If we desire to be among these people will we come out of Rome? Will we organise ourselves according to primitive Godliness? According to eth remnant of her seed? The same as the apostolic days? Yes there is counsel together and working together but no one is the ruler. Yes there are shepherds of the flock, sin has to be reproved, preach the word. Make a stand that we protect this primitive way of organisation and not get involved in the world of Rome.



Posted on December 27, 2010, in Sermons For Sabbath, The Consummation of the Everlasting Covenant. Bookmark the permalink. 1 Comment.

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