By John Thiel

Where does the step of conversion go deeper than intellectual and how does Jesus actually come into us? The process of Jesus entering in, what is that in reality? Many people say Jesus has come into my heart and it’s a cliché. Some people have an emotional experience and they think that is Jesus coming into my heart. We want to understand the science of John 3:16.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jesus was given to us so that we might have everlasting life. Let’s explore the science to have everlasting life. How?

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

That is a distinctive scripture that helps people to wake up and realize I need Jesus in me to have eternal life. The only person who has eternal life is the one who has Jesus inside of himself. This is for us to consider how we may have him inside of our self. For us to benefit from Jesus it is chronicled.

Jesus Gave Himself for Us

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

When someone gives himself like in a marriage, a person gives themselves to the other and they become part of them. Jesus gave himself that my life might be redeemed. To redeem someone means what? They have been kidnapped. If a person has been kidnapped and you want to redeem them, you have to pay a ransom. Jesus gave himself as the ransom to redeem us. We need to understand how far reaching that is. My life has been forfeited by sin. Sin is a living experience.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

To transgress God’s commandments you are actually doing something. If you are taking someone’s money, it is an action. If you are killing someone, it is an action. All sin is to do with actions and living exercises of our being.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 4 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Every one of us has been tempted and in our temptations we have engaged in an exercise how those temptations have drawn on our desires and the action of sin whatever they are. We know that the human race having all sinned, the product is death and everyone knows they are going to die. We are all in a state of doom because of sin. People don’t like to think about all these things, they want to go on living and all of a sudden it catches up on them.

What Has Happened to Man?

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

What has happened to every one of us? We are all subject to death because we have all followed in the footsteps of Adam and Eve. By one man sin entered into the world. What causes our hopeless doom?

Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD’S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.

The transgression of the law means that there is death and separation from God. If you have been separated from God, He is the life giver, if there is a separation there is a cessation of life. This is why man dies. This is why He said in the day you eat thereof you shall surely die. By the law comes a separation from life and the life giver. They are integrated. People have broken the law and separated from the Father. If you do something that causes you to break the law, that is death.

Twice Dead

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

There is such a thing as total annihilation. The roots aren’t in touch anymore, total separation. These scriptures portray to us the reality where man is situated. While you are still young, you have energy and you don’t think about this but all of us young or old, we are living a death. God knows this and that we are living in fairy land. The question arises from man as God laid it out.

How Shall We Live?

Ezekiel 33:10 Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins [be] upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?

How shall we live then? What is the purpose of living? We are doomed. We have been separated from God by sin. Commandments have been broken the consequences which are death. We are totally separated through sin and how shall we live is the question. Only by a perfect God linking with us can we live. If i am down in the bottom of hopelessness and separation from God, we must find a connection with him in that deplorable separated state.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

If it meant that God would come down and die with us, it means that we are all dead. That is the reason why one died for us. Why did Jesus have to die? Because we are all dead men, we are the living dead in a separated state. The law has killed us and the separation from God has killed us. The connection that is needed is someone making connection with us again, God himself making that contact. This is described how we are in this hopeless state and how God comes close to us. Having permitted the Bible to describe our situation we can appreciate the description of the way out. Totally annihilated and doomed to die and disconnected with God because of that. We are going to die as we have been disconnected with God.

The Manner of Recovery

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Jesus was put into a position by creation to be able to die. We taste death. We know the experience of death but Jesus didn’t so he was made.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

I Am Afraid of Death

Is it true that you are fearful of death? If someone came to you with a knife wouldn’t you protect yourself because you don’t want to die? When you have an accident a shock goes through your system because you don’t want to die. Installed in us is a fear of death. I’m actually in a state of death. If I was not connected with God there would be no fear. Perfect love casts out all fear. There is a condition of being that makes us afraid of death. We are in bondage of fear and that bondage he wants to release us from. I can’t help myself, it is absolute doom for me and Jesus was made to be partaker with us in that situation. He was made like that to experience us.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The margin says a sacrifice for sin. What is the wages of sin? Death. Jesus died why? Because he was made in the likeness of sinful flesh therefore he had to die so that he could die with us. He couldn’t have died if he didn’t have sinful flesh but because the wages of sin is death so he partook with us.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh which meant he was to be sin for us although he knew no sin. He was made like that so that the wages of sin being death would come upon him so we who are dead already might be made the righteousness of God in him. We know where we are situated and we are dead men. He died for us in the sense that he was made to be sin so we who were segregated from God are now connected. Jesus Christ together with me dies. God came and linked himself with me on the very point where I am. I am there in a deplorable hopeless sinful death state and God would come and connect with me where I am in the death experience. He tasted death. If he tasted death, what did he die for? The wages of sin is death. He was made to be sin. It wasn’t that he sinned but he was made to be sin. God made him with sinful flesh so that he could die because I must die so he made him in my death position. The transaction of our sin was in his flesh.

The Death of Jesus Mine to Live

He actually linked himself with me so that I, if I choose can link myself with him. Jesus linked himself with us so he could die for I who am going to die might link myself with him willingly instead of waiting for death to get hold of me. That I may preempt it with him so I can receive the benefit of his life. Eternal life was in him. If we have him, then we have eternal life. As I can’t make contact with him, he made contact with me in my sinful condition. As Jesus willingly laid down his life by placing himself in that position, he now says to us, will you willingly connect with me? Jesus connects himself in willingly dying with an invitation for us to do the same.

John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. 26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will [my] Father honour.

What is Jesus saying here? ‘I am a grain of wheat’. Inside a grain of wheat you have what? The germ. The germ will just sit in that grain of wheat until it is put in the grain and dies. If I die, I have no eternal life in me. I haven’t got the germ but Jesus was the grain of wheat that was the germ, where the germ was. Eternal life was in him. Jesus says if you love your life you will lose it. The life I have at the moment is a life of death. If I cling to this life, this personal life that is doomed to die, I am finished. He that hates this life which is a life of death he shall keep it unto eternal life. Why?

Hebrews 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will [my] Father honour.

When Jesus was saying these words he was living among the disciples. He said if you follow me, be where I am. Where did he go? He went into the grave, he went into death. He says if you will follow me and come with me into death, you will have life. Jesus made the choice of leaving heaven and coming down and partaking with us of our sinful flesh. He was made to be sin for us so that I might be made the righteousness of God in him. We may die now by surrendering and dying with Jesus. I can surrender or I can refuse to enter into that transaction and die alone and never live again. He who follows me will be where I am.

Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:

Jesus comes to me and if I make a choice to plunge myself together with him into death, he then says you will be planted together with me. I am the grain of wheat. You come and plant yourself with me in to that grave. Surrender as I surrender. I have come and made contact with you, I have brought the divine nature in contact with sinful flesh and will you connect with me in death? If you will be planted together in the likeness of his death, you will also be in the likeness of his resurrection.

Planted Together In Death

How can we be planted together in his death? How does that really happen? This was the difficult thing for the disciples to understand and for people like the seventy disciples that left him as Jesus said, you have to drink my blood and eat my flesh and they said no thank you. The majority of Christians do not understand until it’s made thoroughly clear of what it really means. They say no thank you and we must so thank you.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man’s foes [shall be] they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Jesus is explaining what it means to die for him. It is letting go of everything on this earth that is dear to me but is doomed to die. If I am attached to people who do not attach themselves to Christ then I am doomed with them. You must be prepared to let it all go to attach yourself to me. It is an intimate close marital relationship. It requires a total traumatizing segregation.

The Trauma of Jesus

Jesus traumatized himself. He let go of heaven. It was a painful experience puzzling to the angels and is difficult for us to comprehend as he constricted himself into a tiny embryo. He became unconscious and went through a death experience even becoming a man.

 Christ, at an infinite cost, by a painful process, mysterious to angels as well as to men, assumed humanity. Hiding His divinity, laying aside His glory, He was born a babe in Bethlehem. {UL 90.2}

A painful process assuming humanity. The holy ghost will come upon you Mary and that holy thing that is being conceived in you, what happened? He didn’t’ come as a baby, he came as a tiny little seed that connected with Mary’s ovum. The two came together and conceived. Two half cells became one cell. One of them was Jesus the Word. It was a painful process of being constricted in a living experience to an unconscious state. He was an unconscious babe, he wasn’t conscious. Jesus who was conscious became unconscious. That was a death in itself when he was made to be sin for us.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

He came lower still. When you ponder upon that, he did that willingly to go through this trauma. Jesus says will you go through the trauma with me? The trauma of letting go of all the glory of the family of heaven. He did that so I might let go of the family on earth that is not in touch with Him. That is my death experience.

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

What He has done for me, will I do for Him? Making connection with the death of Jesus will bring life. Some of you have already partially experienced this. You have had to say to your relatives, we are going this way and it meant a kind of death and that is what Jesus is saying and it has to go all the way so nothing interferes in my connection with him.

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

He who has the son has life. He who has not the son, has not life. This is the connecting link. Making connection with the death of Jesus is going to bring life.

What It Means To Die

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Sin comes by the desire and being drawn by lust. That desire for life on this earth in its hopeless state is a living death and Jesus says doesn’t love it let it go. If you don’t let it go the love of the father isn’t in you for all that is in the world, the pride of life and the ego is not of the Father.

1 John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

It is the will of God that we would be saved. It is not only the keeping of the Ten Commandments but it is the segregation from him that causes death. People say doing the will of God is keeping the commandments. It is the will of God is to connect with him, to make a connection with God in the way that Jesus is demonstrating is to do the will of God. He wants me and if I don’t want him, I am not doing his will. Jesus says if you follow me die with me and that is what it means.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Baptism in a watery grave is a representative of a person who goes into this. It’s just a symbol but by entering into the symbol we are to know the reality of that symbol by living our experience in it.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

I am a sinner, I can’t stop sinning. I am in a condition of sinfulness and I can’t change as I am a body of sin so I must be planted together with him in the death he died. The wages of sin is death. If I choose to not surrender I am going to die and there is no hope for me. He gave himself entirely to me and he wants me to give himself entirely to him that I may be redeemed from this horrible condition which I am in. It can only be done in the transaction that he went through. The old man, the German nature, my inheritance of my parents is to be destroyed, I am to be dead. I have gone through this in my life as my German nature is a dreadful nature and I hated it in my father and when I found I was the same I died. What? I’m going to be like him? All the terror that he went through in his treatment of me, I am going to do the same. I wanted my old man to be dead. This is the process of achieving it. I am truly to not exist in my natural condition.

Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

What does reckon mean? Think it to be so. This has to be a decision of Amen, let it be. Your mind has to be aware of your depraved condition and when one ray of heaven shows that, you don’t have to shield yourself, you don’t have to hide from it just say I’m totally dead.

Dead Men Can’t Feel

Dead men cannot feel. If you still feel in your inmost being the attack of Satan upon you in terms of somebody annoying you, there comes a point in time in Jesus Christ where you regard yourself as dead, I’m finished, I’m dead. If someone is doing something against me it doesn’t’ matter, I’m dead. There are many issues in life like that. If you are dead nothing touches you. Reckon yourselves to be dead through Jesus Christ. What does that mean? The way Jesus went I am going through. As I do that, I am actually in the method by which Jesus can be in me but only if I do that. A normal flesh orientated thinking and living is described as dying.

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

If I don’t regard myself as dead, reckon myself as dead with Christ, I cannot please God. My mind is centered upon ego and the yearning for the desires of the flesh. That is the hard reality. Here is depicted for us the understanding of what has to die. A mind, a thought pattern that pleases the desires of flesh and the pride of life. If I choose to enter into that process as Jesus chose to enter in with me, he did it, he wants me to do it. He gave up all his comforts and pleasures of heaven. We are to give up the comforts and pleasures of sinful flesh. Which one paid the worst price? People are hanging onto something far less than what Jesus did.

Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

How does the spirit in me take place? If I have died together with Jesus I will no longer live in the flesh but in the spirit because the spirit of God has now made contact within me because Jesus and I have entered into the same experience. If I want to have the spirit of Christ I must enter into the selflessness of his own. I’m no longer in the flesh, I’m in the spirit.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

Jesus was made to be sin for us so we might be made the righteousness of God in him. I must die with him and resign myself as I’m dead already. This is the step we are meant to be taking. Sr White wrote in this age that the death of the life at baptism is a very rare experience as people don’t take it into reality. They don’t even believe that Jesus came in sinful flesh so how can they make a connection? This is the horrifying part of the false doctrine on the nature of Christ. There is no way or hope of being able to understand the pan of salvation. Those who do have the knowledge of the nature of Christ, have it in a wonderful theory but they don’t have it in the living and are as bad as the other as this is a living truth.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

The new things that come into existence are from where? Of God. We were isolated and separated so by Jesus Christ God made him to be sin for us. By Jesus Christ God has reconciled us to himself and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation. He has given to us the portfolio, the ministry. God gave Jesus the ministry of reconciliation and if you would take hold of Jesus now you will have a ministry of reconciliation. That ministry is a new creature and through that we may all have the life of Jesus in us because we have gone deeply within ourselves into the death and we will come up inwardly as the Holy Spirit will give us that life and he can’t if we haven’t entered into the intimacy of Jesus death. He can only resurrect us if we have died with him. That is how the Holy Spirit comes in us.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If they received him what did he give them? Power to become sons of God. If he gave them power then they can actually become conceived as Jesus became conceived with the divine nature and now we become as little babes in Jesus Christ. We have become conceived by the Word of God. We are born not by the will of the flesh or of man but of God. God has brought Jesus to us and we have received him, he has produced that and it is a reality if we have surrendered to that death. The born again person who has entered into that reality that we have explored being in a condition of hopeless death awareness and saying I’m making a connection with Jesus and I’m planted with him in that selfless life, that person understands.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I am crucified with Christ but I’m still alive. The life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith by the son of God. It’s no longer faith in but of him. Those words so glibly read from the Bible need to be that living experience so that Apostle Paul’s testimony becomes the testimony of the ones who do the same as he did.

Amen.